Showing posts with label like. Show all posts
Showing posts with label like. Show all posts
Veggie Might Malt Vinegar Oven Fries—Just Like the Fair
Wednesday, April 30, 2014
Penned by the effervescent Leigh, Veggie Might is a weekly Thursday column about the wide world of Vegetarianism.
Twice in the last two months Ive said to someone, "This is just like the fair!"
Sheep shearing, midway rides, and pig races: for a kid in central Ohio, the county fair was the hottest ticket of the fall social calendar; and the Ohio State Fair was the most thrilling event of the year.
Walking through the competition barns, I would beg to join 4-H and have my own sheep. Every year, my father would remind me that we lived within the town limits and our yard was not zoned for farm animals.
I also lived for the midway. My friends and I would gorge ourselves on fried and sweet delicacies and then hit the fastest, whippingest, most vomit-inducing rides.
My favorite fair fare came in a greasy paper cone: salty, skin-on french fries drenched with mouth-puckering malt vinegar. Rarely do I find fries as good as those, but Im always on the lookout.
In August, I came close when I accompanied my college pal KC and her daughter to Prince Edward Island, which is not only home to Anne of Green Gables, but the best potatoes Ive ever eaten. As it turns out, the soil and climate of PEI are perfect spud-growing conditions.
Particularly outstanding were the french fries at a little seaside sandwich shack in the beach town of Victoria. And there, on the ledge next to the ketchup and other condiments, was a bottle of malt vinegar. KC and I smiled. A fellow Buckeye, she eats her fries with malt vinegar too.
We doused our taters and found a picnic table across the lane, just below the signal house overlooking the harbor. It was a postcard-perfect scene. "KC," I said, "this is just like the Ohio State Fair." She laughed, "Only Im not throwing up from the Scrambler."
Just a couple months later, my friend MS and I attended the New York State Sheep and Wool Festival in Rhinebeck, New York. We wandered the stalls, fondling the softest fibers and cooing over the fuzzy animals. I thought of the 6- through 11-year-old me who wanted a sheep in the city as MS and I discussed smuggling an alpaca back to the Big Apple. We were pretty sure getting the 6.5 foot animal on Metro-North would be the most difficult part of the proposition.
It may be impossible to recreate the spirit of fair and festival and idyllic seasides, but the malt vinegar oven fries I whipped up this week are pretty dang close. Salty and tangy, crispy and chewy, they have less fat and fewer calories than traditional fries but all the flavor. CB, who isnt crazy about fries said, "I would eat these again." High praise.
Its been an excellent fall for making new fair memories. A sheep even licked my hand.
~~~
If this post tipped your canoe, swim over to:
Malt Vinegar Oven Fries
Serves 2

2 medium russet potatoes (about 7 ounces each)
2 tbsp malt vinegar
1/2 tbsp olive oil
3 generous pinches sea salt
1) Scrub and dry potatoes. Slice widthwise into 1/2" disks, then slice disks into 1/2" strips. Place cut potatoes into bowl or zipper-seal bag.
2) Pour malt vinegar in a small bowl. Drizzling in olive oil, emulsify oil and vinegar with a whisk or immersion blender.
3) Pour oil and vinegar over cut potatoes, sprinkle with salt, and toss well. Allow to marinate for at least 30 minutes.
4) Preheat oven to 350°. Arrange marinated potatoes on a baking sheet, evenly spaced without much, if any overlap. Bake for 30 to 40 minutes, stirring after 15 minutes, until crispy.
5) Sprinkle with more vinegar and salt, if desired. Serve with your favorite sandwich or in a paper cone for true state fair authenticity. Pucker up…a kiss is in your future.
Approximate Calories, Fat, Fiber, and Protein per Serving
201 calories, 3.5g fat, 3g fiber, 5g protein, $0.47
Calculations
2 medium russet potatoes: 336 calories, 0g fat, 6g fiber, 10g protein, $0.86
2 tbsp malt vinegar: 6 calories, 0g fat, 0g fiber, 0g protein, $0.02
1/2 tbsp olive oil: 60 calories, 7g fat, 0g fiber, 0g protein, $0.04
3 generous pinches sea salt: negligible calories, fat, fiber, protein, $.02
TOTALS: 402 calories, 7g fat, 6g fiber, 10g protein, $.94
PER SERVING (totals/2): 201calories, 3.5g fat, 3g fiber, 5g protein, $.47
Twice in the last two months Ive said to someone, "This is just like the fair!"
Sheep shearing, midway rides, and pig races: for a kid in central Ohio, the county fair was the hottest ticket of the fall social calendar; and the Ohio State Fair was the most thrilling event of the year.
Walking through the competition barns, I would beg to join 4-H and have my own sheep. Every year, my father would remind me that we lived within the town limits and our yard was not zoned for farm animals.I also lived for the midway. My friends and I would gorge ourselves on fried and sweet delicacies and then hit the fastest, whippingest, most vomit-inducing rides.
My favorite fair fare came in a greasy paper cone: salty, skin-on french fries drenched with mouth-puckering malt vinegar. Rarely do I find fries as good as those, but Im always on the lookout.
In August, I came close when I accompanied my college pal KC and her daughter to Prince Edward Island, which is not only home to Anne of Green Gables, but the best potatoes Ive ever eaten. As it turns out, the soil and climate of PEI are perfect spud-growing conditions.
Particularly outstanding were the french fries at a little seaside sandwich shack in the beach town of Victoria. And there, on the ledge next to the ketchup and other condiments, was a bottle of malt vinegar. KC and I smiled. A fellow Buckeye, she eats her fries with malt vinegar too. We doused our taters and found a picnic table across the lane, just below the signal house overlooking the harbor. It was a postcard-perfect scene. "KC," I said, "this is just like the Ohio State Fair." She laughed, "Only Im not throwing up from the Scrambler."
Just a couple months later, my friend MS and I attended the New York State Sheep and Wool Festival in Rhinebeck, New York. We wandered the stalls, fondling the softest fibers and cooing over the fuzzy animals. I thought of the 6- through 11-year-old me who wanted a sheep in the city as MS and I discussed smuggling an alpaca back to the Big Apple. We were pretty sure getting the 6.5 foot animal on Metro-North would be the most difficult part of the proposition.
It may be impossible to recreate the spirit of fair and festival and idyllic seasides, but the malt vinegar oven fries I whipped up this week are pretty dang close. Salty and tangy, crispy and chewy, they have less fat and fewer calories than traditional fries but all the flavor. CB, who isnt crazy about fries said, "I would eat these again." High praise.Its been an excellent fall for making new fair memories. A sheep even licked my hand.
~~~
If this post tipped your canoe, swim over to:
- People Need Potato Salad
- Roasted Asparagus and Chick Peas
- Dijon Roasted Potatoes
Malt Vinegar Oven Fries
Serves 2

2 medium russet potatoes (about 7 ounces each)
2 tbsp malt vinegar
1/2 tbsp olive oil
3 generous pinches sea salt
1) Scrub and dry potatoes. Slice widthwise into 1/2" disks, then slice disks into 1/2" strips. Place cut potatoes into bowl or zipper-seal bag.
2) Pour malt vinegar in a small bowl. Drizzling in olive oil, emulsify oil and vinegar with a whisk or immersion blender.
3) Pour oil and vinegar over cut potatoes, sprinkle with salt, and toss well. Allow to marinate for at least 30 minutes.
4) Preheat oven to 350°. Arrange marinated potatoes on a baking sheet, evenly spaced without much, if any overlap. Bake for 30 to 40 minutes, stirring after 15 minutes, until crispy.
5) Sprinkle with more vinegar and salt, if desired. Serve with your favorite sandwich or in a paper cone for true state fair authenticity. Pucker up…a kiss is in your future.
Approximate Calories, Fat, Fiber, and Protein per Serving
201 calories, 3.5g fat, 3g fiber, 5g protein, $0.47
Calculations
2 medium russet potatoes: 336 calories, 0g fat, 6g fiber, 10g protein, $0.86
2 tbsp malt vinegar: 6 calories, 0g fat, 0g fiber, 0g protein, $0.02
1/2 tbsp olive oil: 60 calories, 7g fat, 0g fiber, 0g protein, $0.04
3 generous pinches sea salt: negligible calories, fat, fiber, protein, $.02
TOTALS: 402 calories, 7g fat, 6g fiber, 10g protein, $.94
PER SERVING (totals/2): 201calories, 3.5g fat, 3g fiber, 5g protein, $.47
Life is Like a Coin
Sunday, March 16, 2014
Elizabeth Cady Stanton, "Solitude of Self," Address before the U. S. Senate Committee on Woman Suffrage, February 20, 1892
The point I wish plainly to bring before you on this occasion is the individuality of each human soul-our Protestant idea. The right of individual conscience and judgement - our republican idea, individual citizenship. In discussing the rights of woman, we are to consider, first, what belongs to her as an individual, in a world of her own, the arbiter of her own destiny, an imaginary Robinson Crusoe with her woman Friday on a solitary island. Her rights under such circumstances are to use all her faculties for her own safety and happiness.
Secondly, if we consider her as a citizen, as a member of a great nation, she must have the same rights as all other members, according to the fundamental principles of our Government.
Thirdly, viewed as a woman, an equal factor in civilization, her rights and duties are still the same -- individual happiness and development.
Fourthly, it is only the incidental relations of life, such as mother, wife, sister, daughter, which may involve some special duties and training. In the usual discussion in regard to womans sphere, such men as Herbert Spencer, Frederick Harrison and Grant Allen uniformly subordinate her rights and duties as an individual, as a citizen, as a woman, to the necessities of these incidental relations, some of which a large class of women never assume.
In discussing the sphere of man we do not decide his rights as an individual, as a citizen, as a man, by his duties as a father, a husband, a brother, or a son, some of which he may never undertake. Moreover he would be better fitted for these very relations, and whatever special work he might choose to do to earn his bread, by the complete development of all his faculties as an individual. Just so with woman. The education which will fit her to discharge the duties in the largest sphere of human usefulness, will best fit her for whatever special work she may be compelled to do.
The isolation of every human soul and the necessity of self-dependence must give each individual the right to choose his own surroundings. The strongest reason for giving woman all the opportunities for higher education, for the full development of her faculties, her forces of mind and body; for giving her the most enlarged freedom of thought and action; a complete emancipation from all forms of bondage, of custom, dependence, superstition; from all the crippling influences of fear -- is the solitude and personal responsibility of her own individual life.
The strongest reason why we ask for woman a voice in the government under which she lives; in the religion she is asked to believe; equality in social life, where she is the chief factor; a place in the trades and professions, where she may earn her bread, is because of her birthright to self -sovereignty; because, as an individual, she must rely on herself.
To throw obstacles in the way of a complete education is like putting out the eyes ; to deny the rights of property is like cutting off the hands. To use political equality is to rob the ostracized of all self-respect, of credit in the market place, of recompense in the world of work, of a voice in choosing those who make and administer the law, a choice in the jury before whom they are tried, and in the judge who decides their punishment.
Shakespeares play of Titus and Andronicus contains a terrible satire on womans position in the nineteenth century - "Rude men seized the kings daughter, cut out her tongue, cut off her hands, and then bade her go call for water and wash her hands." What a picture of womans position! Robbed of her natural rights, handicapped by law and custom at every turn, yet compelled to fight her own battles, and in the emergencies of life to fall back on herself for protection . . . . .
How the little courtesies of life on the surface of society, deemed so important from man towards woman, fade into utter insignificance in view of the deeper tragedies in which she must play her part alone, where no human aid is possible!
Nothing strengthens the judgment and quickens the conscience like individual responsibility. Nothing adds such dignity to character as the recognition of ones self -sovereignty; the right to an equal place, everywhere conceded -- a place earned by personal merit, not an artificial attainment by inheritance, wealth, family, and position.
Conceding then that the responsibilities of life rest equally on man and woman, that their destiny is the same, they need the same preparation for time and eternity.
The talk of sheltering woman from the fierce storms of life is the sheerest mockery, for they beat on her from every point of the compass, just as they do on man, and with more fatal results, for he has been trained to protect himself, to resist, to conquer . . . . .
In music women speak again the language of Mendelssohn, Beethoven, Chopin, Schumann, and are worthy interpreters of their great thoughts. The poetry and novels of the century are theirs, and they have touched the keynote of orm in religion, politics and social life. They fill the editors and professors chair, plead at the bar of justice, walk the wards of the hospital, speak from the pulpit and the platform. Such is the type of womanhood that an enlightened public sentiment welcomes to-day, and such the triumph of the facts of life over the false theories of the past.
Is it, then, consistent to hold the developed woman of this day within the same narrow political limits as the dame with the spinning wheel and knitting needle occupied in the past? No, no! Machinery has taken the labors of woman as well as man on its tireless shoulders; the loom and the spinning wheel are but dreams of the past; the pen, the brush, the easel, the chisel, have taken their places, while the hopes and ambitions of women are essentially changed.
We see reason sufficient in the outer conditions of human beings for individual liberty and development, but when we consider the self-dependence of every human soul, we see the need of courage, judgment and the exercise of every faculty of mind and body, strengthened and developed by use, in woman as well as man...
**************
I was completely moved when I read this. I had never heard of it before watching a documentary tonight on Netflix called simply: "Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony" made in 1999.
Admittedly it was rather long, but it showed me a side of my own mothers life and times that I had not much considered. My mother was born in 1910 which was ten years before women were allowed to vote for the very first time in the USA -- the home of the brave and the land of the free.
She was born before women were thought of as "citizens" in the full sense of the word, meaning, in my mind, free to choose her life style, to own property, to develop her beliefs, and take on the roles she will play in this, her individual life. Just as any man does. His life is his life and he lives it from beginning to end in his own body with his own soul. A woman does the same. We end up at the same place, just as we all began at the same place.
There are many things that influence or change or affect any persons life. Some are rich, some are not. Some are beautiful in appearance, some are not. Some have the support of a family to grow in... others do not. Any and all of these things shape us, and our decisions and our outlook. If we are not caul to seek out truth on our own, we might never find the source of life. Some people are fortunate enough to be guided into this and, of course, others are not. It is not really the past that forms a life, it is the present.
I do not have a good segue to get to the thing that I really want to say in relation to all of this except that when we stand before the judgment seat of Christ we will be there on our own. Male, female, black, white, young, old, talented, simple, strong, feeble... we will, each one of us, be there, just as we are here, just as we were born, and lived, and just as we died: individuals. The only thing of importance will be: "Whom did you love?"
You know how you can watch a movie or be talking to someone and suddenly something just really fills you with a new thought? This was like that for me. To see and get an inkling of what it was like before. Let me not take it for granted. If you are thinking that I am a "feminist" you would be making a wrong assumption. I dont want power over men... or anyone. I just want to be free. Just like you.
"Life is like a coin. You can spend it on anything you want, but you can only spend it once." I am grateful that those men voted to give women (me) the vote and the opportunity to own property. They untied my hands and set me free -- as free as anyone gets, I think. Im grateful that God touched their hearts and they saw that all of us are in this together. That is sometimes a lesson which is a long time in coming.
Pay for Performance and Physicians may be like taking Cats for a Walk
Friday, March 14, 2014
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| The look of cooperation |
As the Disease Management Care Blog understands it, 2013 physicians quality and cost data will be compared to peers, and the docs who are above and below the mean will be correspondingly financially rewarded or dinged starting in 2015. While the American Medical Association continues to quibble over the details, this Affordable Care Act pay-for-performance (P4P) train has left the station.
Unfortunately for CMS, plenty of research suggests that it remains an open question whether PRQS will have much of an impact. For example, findings from this Ontario study indicate that incentives tend to reward physicians who have already achieved the quality thresholds, doing little for the docs who are behind. Additional research shows physicians may not agree with the underlying methodology and distrust the reliance on insurers data, leading to a willful disregard of the incentives. And then theres this expert survey that suggests that the effort it takes to achieve low single digit digit changes in income may be viewed as not worth the trouble.
The DMCB also thinks there may be another under-recognized issue at stake. While fee schedule changes in the 1% to 2% range can make a big difference to large hospital-physician organizations, that money, thanks to these organizations byzantine internal accounting and transfer pricing, is unlikely to trickle down in a meaningful way to their employed physicians paychecks.
Ouch.
Physicians and P4P may turn out to be like cats and going for a walk.
Image from Wikipedia
5 Reasons I Dont Like Veganism
Monday, March 3, 2014
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| What do I want for dinner... lamb or anemia? |
1. Humans are not herbivores.
This myth just wont go away. Every once in a while I get this argument from some fool trying to justify a vegan diet as the best diet on the planet. It typically sounds like this... "You know some people think humans are carnivores, but theyre not. Theyre herbivores." Theres so much wrong with this, I dont even know where to begin. Okay first of all, nobody thinks humans are carnivores. Were clearly not. But were not herbivores either. This argument completely neglects the fact there is another option: an omnivore, which eats both plants and animal foods. Humans are most definitely biological omnivores. Just look at our teeth... mostly flat like herbivores (think about a cows teeth) but with a few canines like carnivores (think of a cat). Then theres our digestive system... its definitely nothing like that of an herbivore. Heres a picture of a cows digestive tract:

You can see here that a cow, designed to eat grass, has four stomachs (not to mention the spacious interior and giant cecum). If youre counting, thats three more than we humans have, and those extra stomachs serve to ferment fibrous plant material for digestion and absorption. Humans dont have this ability, which is why insoluble fiber goes through our guts undigested. What humans do have, however, is the ability to produce HCl, aka stomach acid, to break down protein from animal products. Cows and other herbivores do not. I wont go into detail about any carnivorous digestive systems, like that of a cat, but I will just say this: I had to dissect cats many times in Anatomy lab. I can tell you first hand that their digestive system looks very similar to ours. Heres some evidence, courtesy of catlas.

Point made, humans are most definitely not herbivores. We have the teeth of both herbivores and carnivores, and our digestive machinery is closer to carnivorous than herbivorous. We are fully equipped to digest and assimilate animal foods. Theres more to this argument of course, and if youre interested I recommend this article, written BY A VEGETARIAN, explaining the fact that humans are indeed omnivores. So seriously, cut the herbivore shit. It just makes you look uneducated.
2. Avoiding animal products will not save the environment.
Another common argument to support a vegan diet is the environmental impact. Vegans argue that producing meat is a highly wasteful and environmentally damaging process, and theyre sort of on to something. Conventionally farmed meat is indeed a disaster for the environment. Now Ill admit Im no expert on the topic, but it doesnt take a genius to see why. We have to grow all of this corn and grain (in and of itself an environmentally damaging process), just to feed the cattle to make them fat, just to eventually feed ourselves. So its not difficult to see a solution in there... just feed the corn and grains to ourselves, dont waste it on the cattle.
But again, this argument has holes... it says nothing about naturally raised livestock, like grass-fed beef. The production of grass-fed beef is exponentially less input-intensive; all you really need is cows and an open field, and a place for shelter. In addition, cattle grazing can actually have a positive impact on the land and can help rejuvenate the nutrients within the soil. Not to mention the vastly improved quality of life for the cows, compared to a factory-farmed life. As I hinted at before, growing corn, wheat, and other grains isnt exactly environmentally friendly either. Clearing land to grow annual crops like grains destroys entire ecosystems. That means animals die because youve destroyed their natural habitat. So dont think youre saving animal lives by going vegan; thats just not the case. Then theres also the extensive use of pesticides, insecticides, and herbicides on these mass-produced grains and the impact that has on the environment. And the depletion of nutrients in the soil over years and years of intensive grain agriculture. Its not exactly a pretty picture. Not pretty like the one vegans will try to sell you. Producing grains does more to destroy the environment than to save it.
3. Avoiding animal foods doesnt save animal lives.
I may have jumped the gun with this one in the previous section, but heres a more in depth explanation. As Ive been told a million times... "If I dont eat meat, I wont be contributing to the death of innocent animal lives." Well I admire your compassion, but I think we need a biology lesson here. Death is what makes the world go round. There is no life without death, and there is no death without life. Rabbits eat grass and vegetation, wolves eat rabbits, bears eat wolves, hawks scavenge these animal remains, and bugs in the soil recycle the nutrients from said remains. Its just how biology works. You cannot separate the ecology of plants and animals; they work together to balance an ecosystem. When you clear land to grow massive amounts of corn, youre destroying the former ecosystem, which was likely full of all kinds of cute squirrels and mice. Its a mass homicide! When you spray these massive fields of corn with herbicides and insecticides, killing EVERYTHING but the corn itself and polluting the air... mass homicide! No matter how you slice it, whatever you choose to eat, something is dying to feed you. This is just one of those times when the human capacity for emotion gets in the way of the realities of biology. I know death is sad. But without it, you wouldnt have life, so thank those that died to provide you life and get on with it. And no Im not talking about Jesus. But thank him too if you want, although hes probably sick of being thanked at this point.
Oh and one more important point... we use animals for much more than just food. Heres a quote from a Weston A. Price Foundation article that sums it up quite nicely: "Cows are slaughtered not only to put steak on the table, but to obtain components used in soaps, shampoos, cosmetics, plastics, pharmaceuticals, waxes (as in candles and crayons), modern building materials and hydraulic brake fluid for airplanes. The membrane that vibrates in your telephone contains beef gelatin. So to avoid hypocrisy, vegetarians need to also rain from using anything made of plastic, talking on the telephone, flying in airplanes, letting their kids use crayons, and living or working in modern buildings." Good luck.
4. The people most likely to adopt a vegan diet are the same people who need animal products the most.
This is perhaps the most unfortunate part of this issue. To me its obvious that the people most attracted to veganism are young females. Probably due to socialization and this new age "everybodys a winner" mentality were teaching our kids these days, girls seem more likely to have compassion for these cute, poor little animals that were all killing and eating. But we need to grow up. Ethical issues aside, we humans have nutritional requirements that simply cannot be ignored. And one of the most important nutrients for maintaining health, especially in young women, is iron.
Iron is the backbone of hemoglobin, which is responsible for transporting oxygen in blood. Without sufficient iron, oxygen transport is impaired, and we develop iron-deficiency anemia. Symptoms include chronic fatigue, muscle weakness, shortness of breath... exactly what you would expect when your body is having trouble transporting oxygen. And since women bleed every month (hence, they lose iron), they have a significantly higher requirement for the stuff. Women ages 19-50 need 18 mg/day. For comparison, men ages 19-50 only need 8 mg/day. According to this paper, women are 6-10 times more likely to develop iron deficiency anemia than men!

The problem with vegan diets is that they almost assuredly are deficient in iron. All of the best sources of iron are from animal products: clams, oysters, organ meats, red meat, etc. Youll find some in plant foods as well, like beans and leafy green vegetables, but the type found in plant foods is poorly absorbed. Sure, its possible to get enough iron from plants. Just not easy, especially if youre bleeding some out every month. In addition to iron, there are some other things like vitamin B12 (completely absent from plant foods) and long-chain omega-3 fatty acids (youll have to eat algae) that will be nearly impossible to get enough of on a vegan diet. A little grass-fed meat would take care of all three... easy solution right?
5. Veganism is a very recent phonomenon.
Enter the evolutionary perspective. Humans have been around on this planet for at least 2.5 million years at this point. For the vast majority of that time period, we have been eating like the omnivores that we are, consuming both plant and animal foods. Now think about that... 2.5 million years eating animals and plants... theres no question that we as a species are designed to be omnivores. Now, according to Wikipedia, the first recorded individual eating a vegan diet was Dr. William Lambe in 1806. Thats 200 years ago. In other words, vegan diets have been around for 0.008% of our human history. Thats only 10 generations or so, and with only a tiny proportion of us choosing to eat this way. So looking at this from an evolutionary biology perspective, how in holy hell is an herbivorous diet the best way to go for an omnivorous animal?? Its not. Its just not.
Heres an example of the importance of animal foods, based on the wisdom of traditional cultures. Since we cant go back in time and study past hunter-gatherers, these modern societies still living as foragers offer us some insight into what it was like. In the 1920s when Weston A. Price traveled the world to study these indigenous cultures, he fully expected to find a vegan or vegetarian society out there. He even expected those societies to be the healthiest on earth. To his surprise though, such a society did not exist; every tribe he found consumed both animal and plant foods. The closest to vegan was in the South Sea Islands of southeast Asia. He found that when the people on the interior of the islands faced the possibility of losing access to animal foods and going vegan, they instead opted for cannibalism. According to Price, "the livers and other organs of their enemies from the coast provided the much needed chemicals which were requisite to supplement the plant foods." Gross? Yes. But also very telling of the nutritional shortcomings of a vegan diet. I just hope this doesnt start a new diet fad...
Alrighty, there it is, 5 reasons I dont like veganism. Actually I can think of a few more, but this post is too long as it is. I guess that means Ill have to do a volume 2 at some point! If I offended anyone, Im sorry Im not sorry. Im not trying to put anybody down... just laying out the facts as I see them. Oh, and in all seriousness, dont go eating other peoples livers. Dont do anything to others you wouldnt want done to you, thats what my mama says.
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